What You Need to Know About Burnout & How to Recover From It - with Ioana Patale, Burnout Coach

Do you often feel like you overstretch yourself? Taking on more than what you can actually manage? And when somebody asks you for help, you instantly say yes, because to say no leaves you feeling wrecked with guilt. Perhaps you struggle with boundaries? Unsure of where your responsibilities end and another person’s begins?

Has this left you feeling exhausted, overwhelmed, stressed, unmotivated and maybe like you just don’t care anymore? Then stay tuned, because you may be experiencing, what’s known as burnout.

In this episode. Stacie is joined by the lovely, Ioana Patale, who’s going to guide you through what burnout actually is and how to recognise its early warning signs. What underlying forces are driving the behaviours which lead to burnout in the first place, and most importantly, what do you need to know and do to help heal it. 

About our Guest
IOANA PATALE
Ioana is a Burnout Coach working with overwhelmed mid-level executives and managers who want to become again the compassionate, respected, and efficient leaders they are meant to be. She's been through burnout herself, several times, and only managed to escape the vicious burnout cycle when she got to its roots. Ioana now uses awareness-based coaching to help her clients identify the roots of their burnout and find the personalised solutions that best fit them and their loved ones.
Website: ioanapatale.com
Instagram: instagram.com/ioanapatale_burnoutguide
Facebook: facebook.com/IoanaPataleBurnoutGuide

Transcript

Stacie Clark
Hello, and welcome back to the Quiet Connections Podcast, I’m Stacie.

Do you often feel like you overstretch yourself? Taking on more than what you can actually manage? And when somebody asks you for help, you instantly say yes, because to say no leaves you feeling wrecked with guilt. Perhaps you struggle with boundaries? Unsure of where your responsibilities end and another person’s begins? Has this left you feeling exhausted, resentful, unmotivated and maybe like you just don’t care anymore? 

If this sounds like you, then stay tuned, because you may be experiencing, what’s known as burnout.

In this episode. I’m joined by the lovely, Ioana Patale, who’s going to guide us through what burnout actually is and how to recognise it’s early warning signs. What underlying forces are driving the behaviours which lead to burnout in the first place, and most importantly, what do you need to know and do to help heal it.

Ioana was an absolute joy to speak to, and I know you’re going to really benefit from listening to what she has to say. So grab a cuppa, settle in, and let’s get to it…

Stacie Clark
Hi Ioana, it's so lovely to have you join us. And welcome to the Quiet Connections podcast. I'm really, really looking forward actually, to having this chat with you today, because we're going to be talking about burnout. And whilst I've heard of burnout before, I don't actually know a lot about it. So I'm really looking forward to hearing more about what it is, where it comes from, and what we can do to help ourselves if we're experiencing it.

But before we get to that, would you like to start just by introducing yourself and what it is that you do?

Ioana Patale
Sure, sure thing. Thank you, Stacie. Thank you for inviting me. And I'm super, super excited to be here, and to share my burnout story and to share a little bit more about burnout, because it is such an important subject. And it's such a common topic that a lot of people don't even know, you know, that they're going through burnout. So the more awareness we can bring to the topic, I think that the more the, the better it will be for the people going through this without realising.

Stacie Clark
You're actually a coach as well, aren't you? Could you tell us a little bit more about your your coaching practice?

Ioana Patale
Yes, yes. Yes. So I started as a coach, almost a year ago. Because I, you know, it's funny how I always say that my burnout has turned into one of my biggest breakthroughs, actually, and how, you know, burnout is not, it's not something to be ashamed of. I was in a super good career in a super good role, advancing and being promoted quite often, and you know, feeling like I'm really, really good at my job. But then, one day I just woke up, and I realised that I've been feeling exhausted for quite a few months, that I've been complaining about my work to my husband and friends constantly, for maybe more than than half a year. And I realised that I had been so busy doing doing doing and had taken zero time for myself and to reconnect with myself and to, you know, check in with with myself and make sure that I'm still on track with my values, and what I'm doing is still aligned with my values.

And I just realised one day that, "oh, I don't know who I am anymore". Like, I don't know how I got here. It just felt like the past six months to one year, it just went by so fast. And I didn't know why I was working so much? Like, almost 14 hours a day every day. I was constantly thinking about work 24 seven, even when I was off work. I was checking my email first thing in the morning and last thing at night before going to sleep.

So I do realise, and that's exactly what's specific about burnout, that it kind of acts like a snowball. It starts very small.And you think like, Okay, I'm just want to work late today. I'm just gonna help out my colleague today. It's just this one time, you know, they really need my help. And it's okay, it's fine. Okay, it's just this weekend It's okay. I get a vacation when this big project finishes, you know, get some rest. Then this big thing happens with this client who's upset and who's very important to us, then they'll be happier or something like, you know, and you kind of keep postponing that time where you reconnect with yourself and with your values, and you take some risks, and then all of a sudden, you're in burnout and you have very little energy to get out of it.

So that's, that's the story in a nutshell. And that's exactly, once I realised, that I'm very exhausted and burnt out. It's actually been a dream of mine to work with people to serve people in this manner. And I realised, okay, maybe this is the perfect time. I think this is a sign that I'm I have not been doing, working with meaning for some time. I have not been doing, living out my purpose. So maybe this is the perfect time to actually take a break and start my coaching practice.

And ever since then, because I experienced burnout and I managed to overcome it on my own with a lot of self work and a lot of time invested. And books I read and a lot of self coaching and coaching. I decided, Okay, I would really, really love to help people in this manner, specifically, to overcome burnout.

Stacie Clark
That's such an amazing story. And I actually feel like there's there's a lot in there to unpack that perhaps we can get to all those details throughout this just to explore what burnout is. But there was also something in there about discovering purpose, and perhaps we can touch on that a little bit later too.

So for those who are listening, who perhaps haven't heard of burnout before, could you describe, you know, what it is? What is burnout?

Ioana Patale
Sure, thanks. Sure. So, it's actually a diagnosis. It's, it's been coined by the World Health Organisation as well. And it's, it's actually related just to work as of now, as of now, it's been pinpointed to work. Being dissatisfied with your work, basically. And you can tell that you're in burnout if you have the following symptoms. If you're no longer enjoying work, if your productivity has decreased, your creativity has decreased. If there are some physical symptoms, as well as such as trouble sleeping, digestion issues, headaches, migraines, back pains. It's very common, especially among people who work from an office and who, without realising they are working so much, they're focusing so much on it to work that they literally forget about their physical needs, and they don't realise that they're sitting in such a bad posture for so many hours a day.

Stacie Clark
Like me now.

Ioana Patale
Me as well,! I'm like okay, am I sitting in a good posture? Yeah, so, back pains, even dehydration, you know, because, again, you forget even to go to the washroom and to drink water. And so, many people eat in front of their laptops, or they eat very fast. And so hence the many digestion issues that that they encounter. And the most common, I would say, there's the emotional detachment. So basically, when you start feeling, besides the nervous exhaustion and fatigue, you start not caring anymore. Which is weird, because people who go into burnout are usually people who care a lot. Like they really really care about getting the job done. They're super ambitious. They have a lot of perseverance. They love helping people. So it's very weird for them. Because "Wait, I was not this person at all. Like, I used to give 110% in everything that I was doing. And today, nowadays, I'm waking up and I don't feel like doing anything at all. And I'm secretly even resentful at everyone who's asking me things.". And I think this is a very good sign of burnout.

When you you're starting to resent the people that you used to love helping out. Now, because you're so tired, you're like, "What does everyone want from me?", "Give me a break.". But then again, you feel ashamed for feeling so resentful. And you don't even dare to address that topic. Because it's filled with so many complex emotions.

Stacie Clark
Wow. Again, I think there's quite a few layers in that isn't there. So first thing I picked up on, is that there's something around deattachment from self care. There's also something there around what sounds like a lot of shame. I'm wondering if you can maybe share some of the underlying fears and behaviours that are actually at force underneath this burnout, and which is potentially leading to the burnout as well?

Ioana Patale
Mm, yeah, great question. Yeah, definitely a lot of shame. Because what fuels burnout and what I've noticed from my own experience, and with clients, and from studying myself - I've turned myself into kind of a lab lab rat, just to make sure that I really dissect this topic, and that I understand it profoundly. But also from the academic studies, is that what's very common among people who reach burnout is that they are, as they call it, overly responsible.

So a lot of times these people, as children, they used to be the more responsible ones in their households. For example, maybe they were the eldest sibling who was taking care of the younger brothers. Or maybe they were someone, as it happened in my case, as well as in so many cases, where one of the parents is in depression, or absent or alcoholic or dealing with an addiction. So basically, what ends up happening is that the adult in the house is unavailable.
So then the child starts feeling like, okay, there's no room here for my needs, or, you know, to be a child. I have to step up, I have to take the responsibility of taking care of the people around me. I've had a client who had an alcoholic mother, and ever since the age of nine, she had to single handedly take care of the entire house, like cook, do the dishes, the laundry, and cleaning and everything by herself and taking care of her younger sister. And she was doing that while making only A Grades in school, being a great student in everything. So starting from that, you start becoming overly responsible, you take a lot on you, you have a lot of control over your environment, because you have to, but then as an adult, this is something that obviously served you as a child, but as an adult, you don't realise that this is not the normal.

You don't realise that you're taking, you're being overly responsible, you're thinking, I'm just responsible, I'm just doing my thing, this is how I operate, this is how the world goes wrong. So without realising, you enter dynamics where you are being overly responsible, and the people around you enforce this dynamic. You may find maybe even leaders or bosses who depend on you a lot, who really put a lot on your plate, because that makes you feel important and useful and significant in the workplace. Or colleagues who always need your help, they see you as a mentor, and you really enjoy doing that. Right? Because that's what gives you significance and purpose.

But then obviously, you overextend yourself, and you become exhausted and burnt out, at which point you have no energy left to give. And that's when you know that massive amount of shame comes because again, because you don't know who you are anymore. And the identity that you think you have, that I'm supposed to be the superhero.

And this is exactly what happens. People see you as the superhero. But within yourself, you see yourself as a super failure. You think like, I'm not doing anything up to my mark, so there's a lot of, there's a big disconnect, you may even call it imposter syndrome, between what other people see. And they even ask you, how do you do it all?

And so they reinforce that behaviour. They, like everyone, around you applaud you for this, like, Wow, I can't believe you're doing so much and you're helping everyone and you're volunteering here and there, and then while you're like this massive superhero, you know, and inside yourself, you're actually feeling like I'm barely keeping it all together. I'm terrified that one of these days, I'm going to drop one of the many balls that I've been juggling with.

Stacie Clark
There's something there around attaching achievements to yourself to have a sense of self worth. But that actually, other people in society are kind of reinforcing that and potentially actually making that worse and furthering that message that actually you need to achieve more and do more in order to be worthy.

Ioana Patale
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You You put it the in the exact right words, that's what it is basically. You start basing your worth on what you produce, on what you can do for other people, on your achievement. And sometimes even as adult, on your earning potential, because we equalise money with what we can do for people. So if you don't earn a lot of money, then people start feeling like, Okay, I'm not doing my job, I'm not worthy. I'm not solving enough problems for the world.

Stacie Clark
Yeah, so really, underneath all of this is burnout or what leads to burnout is really a sense of not feeling good enough.

Ioana Patale
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And the only way you can feel good enough? Is you have to earn your worthiness. This category of people, of which I'm a part of, really struggle, with earning their worthiness. Like, Okay, what can I do? They're constantly thinking, what can I do to prove once and for all that I deserve my place here, I deserve my place at the table. So that that's how they do it, they solve problems for other people, other people are loving it. Because, right? Why wouldn't they? And as you, as you said, as you rightly put it, they reinforce that behaviour.

Stacie Clark
That's a really interesting way of putting it, that the question essentially, that they're asking themselves is, 'What can I do to prove my worthiness?". And I think then, when we lay it out, like that, I feel an awful lot of compassion, actually, towards that. To be like, Wow, that's really not coming from a good place. And I know that there is this dynamic within society where there's like, over functioning, and then under functioning, and everyone's kind of reinforcing each other's behaviours. I know me and my colleague, Hayley have had this discussion before, we kind of fall on either side of the spectrum. I tend to lean actually more towards the under functioning, because of conditoning that led me to believe that I wasn't capable enough, and that kind of freezes me, but then the other side of that, is that then everybody else is picking up all the other stuff because they feel responsible for it. So there is this interesting dynamic that happens.

What do you feel like needs to change in order for all of us to stop? And I suppose, work more together to stop this kind of cycle of unworthiness that's actually driving all of this regardless of what side you're on?

Ioana Patale
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I love the point, because that's exactly what it is, like, we enable each other. And, you know, for every over functional person, there's always an under functional. And for both of them, like, lack of perceived lack of worthiness is the cause. And I think the more awareness we have towards each other, like, for me, for example, one of my enablers was my sister, and we both got educated, we both got that awareness around the subject. And we realise, okay, there's this dynamic between us, where I'm always, you know, trying to rescue her, she's always needing my help and accepting it, and she doesn't realise when there's no one to care for my needs, and so on. And we found that by addressing this topic together, as it happened with you and Hayley, by addressing it in an open and candid manner, we will, and now we're kind of keeping each other accountable, you know, and she's always making sure Hey, is your cup full enough? Can you help me? Oh, now, she always thinks of me before asking for my help. Because she knows I have this tendency of giving help, even when I am tired, and I can't or I don't have the resources and so on. And I also understand her now a lot better, I understand where she's coming from. And so we decided, Okay, I'm going to be responsible for myself. And she understands that she has to be responsible for herself as well.

Stacie Clark
Yeah. And I think that's really the key, isn't it is that we start to move towards that place of responsibility and accountability for who we are, as opposed to that externally, I suppose or projecting that externally. And I think that circles back around to this idea of the self care aspect, and bringing that attention back internally. What do you think a person who is maybe experiencing burnout, what is it that they need then to be able to start recovering or healing the burnout?

Ioana Patale
Mm hmm. Well, I think the first step is, as with everything, is to recognise, to acknowledge that you're going through burnout. I think that the faster you admit that, you you stop the denial. I think the faster you can actually start, taking care of your needs and becoming more aware of how tired am I really? What is my capacity really today? So that when, some people just because you realise you're in burnout, and you're overly responsible, and so on, it doesn't mean that people all of a sudden will stop asking things from your right, because they like you as the person that they can rely on. They know you as the overly responsible one who will whenever they give you a task, you do it to perfection, and you do it within the deadline and do it without any help. So people love giving you tasks, right? Because you're someone who who performs so well. So they're not going to change that overnight, you need to give people some time. And you need to give yourself a lot of a lot of self compassion, especially.

And then, again, awareness as to what can I really get done today? What's my capacity today? And having that in mind, whenever people make requests, or something comes up. Being ready to, take some time to sort through what's draining you, what's deenergising you, where is the misalignment between your values, and what's happening in your life right now. So really identifying those causes. And then working on each one, one by one, it's a complex thing. Unfortunately, it's not something that can be worked on overnight, or in a matter of one or two sessions.

So people generally need about maybe two or three months to, and that's the process that we usually go through. Uncovering the roots of the burnout, specifically for them, and then attacking each specific problem at once.

Stacie Clark
Yeah, amazing. So I think the question that came up for me then, was what was the importance of reconnecting with values? In terms of helping you to overcome burnout.

Ioana Patale
So, a lot of times, what happens with people is that, because they're having that very strong sense of duty, a lot of times they will not agree with certain things that happen in the workplace. For example, maybe the direction that the company is going in, or maybe the way their leaders do things, or a lot of times, for example, nurses and teachers are in burnout. Why? Because they're in what is called a stress sandwich, because you're basically caught between a lot of requests from above, and a lot of pressure from above, to from even government requirements, and, you know, hospital procedures and stuff like that. And then the requests of your patients, or in the case of teachers, the the needs of the children, and you're caught in between, and these two parties, that don't talk to each other. And they have actually very conflicting interests, right?

Like, the hospital wants to make money, the patient wants to receive empathy. So like, how do you devote? Or this can happen, even when you're like a middle manager, for example, your boss wants efficiency and puts, it may put a lot of pressure on you to get things done. Whereas you care a lot about the team that you're managing, and they need time, and they need empathy, and you want to groom them, you want to invest in them. And so there's a conflict of interest there. And you really want to do it, but then you don't know how to deal with that tension there. And so you work really, really hard for something that you really don't believe in anymore.

And that's, I think that's one of the biggest myths around burnout, that a lot of people think it's related to the workload, to the number of hours that you're working. And it's not that, it's you can you can work even 14 hours a day for quite a long time and still be very happy and still be very balanced. And have a lot of energy. When your values align with your activity, with what you're doing. You know, you are at peace with yourself. You don't have any inner conflict. You feel meaningful, you feel like you have autonomy over your work. But when these things are missing and you feel you have no control over your work, and you have no control over the vision in which maybe the company is going or where your workplace going.

And at the same time, maybe you're also not recognised, you're not receiving enough recognition for your efforts. And if this, you even add some, you know, lack of ethics, you know, maybe the company is doing something that you really consider unethical, and so on. And you work really hard for something that you truly don't believe in, that's when you go into burnout.

So that's where the key to burnout is. To actually discover, okay, where is the misalignment? And how do I fix this? How do I, you know, maybe have the difficult conversations that I need to have at work? Or maybe how do I, sometimes some people choose to change their jobs? Because the the environment is simply just too toxic to recover there.

Stacie Clark
Wow.

Ioana Patale
Hopefully that made sense, and answered your question.

Stacie Clark
Absolutely. I mean, the key thing that I took away from that, is that it is about realigning. And it's about getting back in tune with what's important to you. What your needs are? Which I think you've really expressed, as something that actually is being sacrificed a lot. So it makes sense. And I, I get the feeling that it's, I want to say there's something in there about boundaries, as well, and then being able to recognise your, your values, and what's important, and having that alignment then means actually, you can bring some more boundaries in place, which perhaps prevents future burnout from occuring?

Ioana Patale
100% Yes, 100%. That's, that's basically the solution. Once you know, once you've fixed, let's, let's put it this way, the inner conflicts that you have, then that's the point where you realise, okay, so I actually have quite a lot of relationships, where I've not been happy for quite a long time. And now I have to deal with that, you know, you can't just avoid, like, you can avoid conflict, obviously, and the situations, but it's not advisable. If you want to know, I had clients, for example, who were well on their way to retire at 40, from working, by keeping that particular workplace, you know, by keeping that particular role. So obviously, it was super important for them to overcome burnout and fix, fix the problems that were in that particular workplace.

And this, this is not the only scenario there, there can be many examples. So setting boundaries is the, the most definitely the solution to do that. And yeah, but then again, setting boundaries is something that does not come easily to, to overly responsible people.

Stacie Clark
No, I don't think they come easy to many, many of us to be honest!

So I kind of want to throw a little bit of a spanner in the works here. So I know that you mentioned that the official definition of of burnout is centred around that over extender, the person who just keeps going and going and going and going, very high achievers and with behaviours, like that. But some of, a lot of the underlying behaviours and fears that that you've identified here and that you're working with, I know are also very common in, let's call them the under functioner, the 'me's' of the worlds! And I suppose my question really is, can a person still experienced burnout from avoiding? Like, if they were in a position of avoiding achievements or, really taking on responsibilities and stuff, because of also the anxieties that are experienced around not meeting people's expectations, or a fear of not being good enough, or fear of not being competent, afraid to like, speak out or voice opinions because they're afraid of other people's responses,  of them saying that they're wrong or something like that? Is there still any kind of level there of burnout being able to be experienced?

Ioana Patale
That's a really great question. That's a really good question. And I've been thinking about it. Because I've been noticing that there are people you know, who that as you call them, as you say, under functioning as, they appear to be under functioning or underperforming, you know, like, they're, they're at the opposite spectrum of the over performers. It looks from outside that they're not doing much.

Stacie Clark
Right, from the outside.

Ioana Patale
They're not doing much, but, and to be honest, I don't know the answer to this, because it has not been, I've been working on this or studying this and noticing that, hey, is that what's happening in their inner world is exactly what's happening in the inner world of the over, overly responsible people. It's very, very, like, as you pointed out very well, the roots are the same, the behaviours are different. But the roots and what happens inside their mind is very, very similar. Imposter syndrome, a fear of failure. I don't know, the one thing that I've noticed that may be different between these two categories is the ease with which they set boundaries. And they say no. And we're here to be, I'd be curious to hear from you. Like if this is something you noticed or not?

Stacie Clark
From my personal perspective, I really struggled with boundaries. And I think the main difference, I would say is potentially that it's less people pleasing in terms of moving towards making sure that you're getting things done in order to please the person. But more like, I've heard this term before, that's called, collapse and submit. So it's more like a submissive state of like you doing't say, No, but you're very resistant to doing it. So there's a lot of procrastination, there's a lot of delay. Until that's really kind of, you know, you have to do it now, type thing. Or the person then eventually swoops in and just picks it up before you motivate yourself, I suppose to do it. But the underlying thing still, is that you you're internally saying no, but externally saying yes.

Ioana Patale
Yeah, yeah. But the the coping mechanism is different, like, whereas usually the over functionals, go straight into action mode. And they do the stuff that they said they will they will do they under functionals, or are saying yes. And they go into procrastination before.

Stacie Clark
Yeah, yeah avoiding as much as possible until it's too late!

Ioana Patale
Yeah, yeah. So there is something there for sure. There is something in there for sure to be further more studied and, you know, looked looked into. But as of now, all the academic research that I found, and that's been done on burnout, in general refers to over functional people who do too much work, too many hours, and again, with a misalignment of values, but I have been asking myself the same question. Is it possible that it's actually is it still burnout? Or is it something really similar? But you know, with different nuances?

Stacie Clark
Yeah. I think that's such a fascinating thing. And yeah, it's really exciting actually that you're exploring that and to see is it the same or is it like you said, something slightly different. I'd be really interested to hear where you get to with that in the future.

Ioana Patale
Yeah, I'll definitely get back to you on that.

Stacie Clark
Yeah, that would be great. But yeah, I think what I'm taking away from this is that really, the underlying theme here is that sense of unworthiness, its shame, and unworthiness and all these behaviours on top of it, of trying to gain and seek some form of validation and approval.

Ioana Patale
Yeah, yeah. And it's such a pity, you know, and actually, whenever I think of this, I think of, and I hope I'm pronouncing her name correctly, Malala uses father. He was asked, so she's, she's this very awesome activist for for Palestinian young women to get access to education. And so she's definitely a role model of courage, of bravery of being her authentic self, despite all obstacles. And she was very close to her father. So her father was once asked by a reporter, like, what did you do with Malala? How did you raise her that she became the woman she is today? And his answer was, I did not cut her wings.

And I think that's, that's exactly what goes wrong, you know. So, so many parents out of love really out of, you know, trying to make you to turn you into a responsible adult and helping you be your best self, they can like our generation of parents, they can do and know how to do that and we can like there there is something to think about that they did not have the resources that we have today. So they had way less information on this, but basically, you know, out of trying to help us be responsible, they really, you know, many times they they cut the wings of the people in our generation and accidentally made them believe like, you know, you work hard. You are what you earn. You got to help people you got to do this. You got to be obedient, you better not stir the pot and stuff like that. And that's when you are a good kid, you know?

Stacie Clark
Yeah, I love that phrase, the the cut of the wings. And basically what I'm taking away from this end is that we all need to regrow our wings.The process of re growing the wings. Yeah, I love that.

Okay, so just to finish up, do you have any, like last words of kindness that you'd like to extend to our quiet community or for anyone out there who's listening that is experiencing burnout right now?

Ioana Patale
That's a that's a great question. Um, I guess I would say, hang in there. It's not permanent. At this figure out about, it has a it has a solution. And it's not your fault. But there is something that you can do to fix it. And the sooner you get, you know, someone on board to help you with with burnout, the faster your your quality of life will improve.

Stacie Clark
Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on. And speaking to me today. I found that really fascinating to hear all about burnout. I think it was a really insightful conversation.

Ioana Patale
Thank you so much, Stacie. It was such a such a pleasant conversation. And I really hope that everyone in your audience listening to this will really find value in it.

Stacie Clark
I'm sure they will. Yeah.

Ioana Patale
Thank you so much.

Stacie Clark
Thanks for listening, and I hope you’ve taken away some valuable insights to work with. You can always join our wonderfully supportive Quiet Community for free, to connect with others who are working through similar challenges - it’s a great space to share and encourage one another. You can find out more by visiting QuietConnections.co.uk. 

Be sure to tune in again next week, and in the meantime, stay connected.